Ella: Usually fashion jobs are very low paid. It’s a very intense industry. It’s very competitive. This really is like “Devil Wears Prada”.

You know, after I’d started freelancing, I did a lot of self-reflection. Being self-employed, it does have its downsides. And for me, the most important thing at that time was to have the financial freedom. Just know that you don’t have to rely on full-time employment to be able to do what you really want to do. There are other options and you don’t have to be in that environment to be successful.”

Lisi: “Hello and welcome back to the freelance blueprint. This is season 4. Crazy! And I’m so glad you’re here.

This season we have some very interesting guests from SEO consultants to fashion designers to AI educators. And it’s also the first season where we have our first returning guest which I’m super excited about to see how the freelance journey has evolved.

I’m your host Lisi, a freelance UX designer and digital nomad. And today we’re joined by Ella. She’s a fashion designer with over a decade of experience in the industry and she’s also a coach for freelancers, so you will definitely get a lot of value out of this episode.

We are covering a lot of topics including getting the confidence to charge higher rates as a freelancer. We also talk about human design and how that impacts your business, how you can find clients, but it doesn’t always have to be hard, and how to promote yourself and put yourself out there. So, let’s get started.

Ella’s Background and Move to France and Fashion

Ella: “It’s wonderful to be here. Thanks so much for having me.”

Lisi: “Where are you calling from?”

Ella: “So, I’m currently in Beiritz, which is in the southwest of France.”

Lisi: “You told me about it last time we talked. But I’ve not I’ve not heard about it before. But you’re doing fashion, and I think France is a very good country to be in for that. Was that the reason why you went there?”

Ella: “Yeah, funny enough, actually, I did move to France for a job in the fashion industry. So, that was about I guess like 6 years ago now that I got a job and just took it. Yeah. So that was the kind of the purpose of moving to France. It definitely wasn’t a place that I was predicting that I would end up but I have ended up here and yeah it’s a beautiful spot where we are.”

Lisi: “If I wouldn’t know anything about you but I would meet your twin sister how would she describe you?”

Ella: “Oh that’s a very good question. She always describes me, which I don’t necessarily agree with, is she always calls me like the glamorous version of her because I think of the whole fashion thing. Like she’s always like, “Oh, you’re living this like fashion fashion freelance lifestyle.” So that would probably be her first description.

We’re very similar in a lot of ways, but we have ended up in very different places in our lives. She’s got a kid and a house and a husband, and I’m much more transient and nomadic. So, I think that would probably be her explanation as well.”

Lisi: “I think it’s like what your sister says, it’s very glamorous. Like, when I think of fashion, I think of like I don’t know, Naomi Campbell and Claudia Schiffer, like that’s the supermodel era that I grew up with. Walking down the runway, Vera Wang, Gucci in a way, like these kind of things, very lifestyle fashion magazines.

What’s your view on fashion? Like, you’re way more in it. And I think it’s not just a super glamorous world, but it’s more broad than what the average person might think of fashion. like what’s your what’s your take on it?”

Ella: “Definitely. And I think there’s a whole other side which is definitely not as glamorous. It’s a very intense industry. It’s very competitive. I think people are definitely attracted to it because of the glamorous side of it. And you know, thinking that it is going to be this lavish lifestyle, but it really isn’t. Like usually fashion jobs are very low-paid. It’s very stressful. It’s long hours. And it’s always this kind of, I guess, it’s it’s a bit of like a burnout culture.

So, it’s always like on to the next thing. Okay. You never kind of finish a collection and kind of sit with it. It’s always like right, what’s the next thing? What’s trending now? And it’s just always like so fast-paced. So, that’s something that I actually really struggled with in the fashion industry.

And maybe I was a little bit that it was going to be this kind of glamorous lifestyle, which it really wasn’t in the end.”

Lisi: “What made you go into fashion?”

Ella: “So, I’ve really grown up in a creative household. When I was younger, my parents were both artists. They still are artists. I think that was really kind of embedded into my yeah into my lifestyle and you know, I was always drawing, always painting. So, I kind of knew that I would end up in a creative industry. And when I was working out what I was going to do at university, I felt so overwhelmed with options. I kind of just ended up picking something because I was like, I want to get a job after university. And I was I did like fashion and I loved sewing my own clothes and I was really drawn to that. So it kind of just was felt like the the natural progression, but I don’t know if I was like fully cut out for the fashion industry. Too nice, too sensitive, I think.

So yeah, that was definitely something that was a big kind of wakeup call when I went into the fashion industry.”

Lisi: “When did you realise it’s not this glamorous world?”

Ella: “Um, probably pretty early on, I think. Like maybe when I started doing internships and started kind of getting a taste for the culture and the lifestyle, I was like, “Okay, this really is like Devil Wears Prada, you know, like you kind of think, oh, that’s bit more dramatised and it can’t really be like that.” But it actually can be like that and it can be really brutal.

Obviously, I’m painting a very like maybe yeah, a darker picture of it. Obviously, there was I learned so much in the industry. like there was so much growth there and I think being under that pressure you do learn a lot and you do handle a lot of situations and you have to build build a a thick skin be able to handle a lot of complicated situations as well but yeah it was um it was probably yeah very early on that I I got a kind of taste for what it really is going to be like.”

Tips for People Starting in a new Industry

Lisi: “What would you recommend to someone who goes into this industry with this ‘It’s going to be glamorous’, ‘I’m going to be so creative’ and then learns that ‘Oh, actually it’s very competitive. It’s actually not as well paid’ and or not not just necessarily fashion, but like someone who goes into a field with a certain expectation and then realises maybe it’s not quite what they expected. What would you tell them?”

Ella: “I would say actually to know that there are other options and you don’t have to be in that environment to be successful. And I think that took me a very very long time to realise like I was kind of jumping from company to company hoping that it was going to get better and realising that actually the culture is so deeply embedded it’s like it’s not really going to change and and maybe you get lucky and you find a nice company that is slower paced and youknow I think there are companies out there that can be like that but for me it was almost like I was searching for something that maybe wasn’t there. So, I would say, yeah, just know that you don’t have to rely on full-time employment to be able to do what you really want to do, whether that’s fashion or whatever else it is that you want to do. But you mentioned after university that your main goal was to get a job. How did you transition from wanting to get a job to starting your own freelance business? Good question. So, yeah, I was in the industry for almost 10 years, like trying to make it work. I was really like, you know, climbing the ladder, trying to get the promotions, get the pay rises, jumping through the hoops, working long hours, stressful hours. I ended up having a really bad burnout in one of the company, actually the company I was working with in Paris. Yeah, I really burnt out and kind of hit a a bit of a brick wall.

And I’d got another job offer with a very similar company. And I had this kind of dilemma when I was like, okay, am I going to go to this other job and just hope that it’s going to be better or do I take a leap into something that’s maybe less familiar but could potentially work better for me, my goals and where I would like to be because clearly I’m not happy how it’s working out right now.

So yeah, I think it kind of took me to hit a very low point to make that decision which it probably shouldn’t have got to that point. I’m going to be honest. I should have like listened to the red flags and maybe yeah done something sooner. But yeah, it was definitely what I needed to make that dramatic change and start my own business. And it’s funny because like so many people think that having a job is the answer to everything.

Getting a job that’s well paid where hopefully you get some freedom and stuff and it’s like what you said like you hoped it was going to be better and there’s only like there’s the hope but you cannot really control it. Whereas if you start your own thing, you have more control that you can actually choose to work with people that you enjoy working with. And it’s not like there is no control at all in a permanent job. Like you could you can always quit like there is some sort of control. But yeah, it’s it’s very common that people have to reach a low point to change the situation.

And I think there are a lot of people out there who just I’m not going to say it’s like a mediocre life, but they the situation is not bad enough for them to be motivated to change something, but it’s also not as good as they would like it to be.”

Lisi: “I’m really sorry you you went through burnout. How did you how did you get out of it?”

How to Get Out of Burnout

Ella: “Yeah, it’s it’s so it’s so common and I I often work with freelancers who have taken that decision to go freelance because of a burnout and it actually makes me really sad that it has to get to that point. But sometimes, yeah, it’s definitely like you need to have that kick because I think so many people get comfortable in that situation. And it’s not necessarily comfortable.

It’s more like the familiar, isn’t it? It’s like you think, well, would it be better? I don’t know.So, maybe I should just stay. And I definitely did that for a really long time. But yeah, for me to get out of the burnout, I did a lot of self-reflection.

Had to really kind of dig deep and think about what are my values? What what are my future goals? And is this job actually going to help me to reach the goals that I want to reach? And for me, the most important thing at that time was to be financially free, to be able to travel more because I had this like, you know, 3 weeks holiday a year max that I had to use and it was like so much pressure to use it and and also like had such low income living in a such an expensive city like Paris. It was just like hand-to-mouth every month and I was like constantly just like waiting for that pay rise that never seemed to come.

So that was really important to me to have the financial freedom. And I think like I just remember writing a list of like pros and cons and it was just like you know the pros of going freelance and starting my own business outweighed the cons. And it was just so worth taking that risk and taking that that leap. But yeah to get out of the burnout I mean I just had to completely change my lifestyle. I got out of Paris as soon as possible.

I think sometimes the environment when you’ve had like a bad experience in a certain environment I think a change is definitely really good. So that was that really helped me just to like move away change my lifestyle completely. I actually got really into self-development as well at that point which I hadn’t really discovered. So I was doing a lot of reading and yeah listening to podcasts things like that. So that really helped me and also jus tlike connecting with people who also were doing what I wanted to do. So people who were like that step ahead of me who were successful at what they were doing and trying to block out the voices which were around me which so many people were saying to me that it wouldn’t work that you can’t go freelance or you can go freelance but you’re going to be broke or you can go freelance but it’s going to be stressful you know. So yeah and in a way for many people it is like there are not every freelancer is automatically successful. Um not every freelancer never faces burnout.

Entrepreneurship for Self Development

Like it depends on what you take on the expectation you have towards yourself the projects you keep saying yes to but there were two things that I find quite interesting the one was the self-development that you mentioned and the other one to expose yourself to people who are doing what you want to do and on the self-development I saw this post or something somewhere you know scrolling Instagram and it was something along the lines of is opening your own business just like something like a like a quick course on learning about yourself and self-development like being pushed through that and that resonated because I think since opening my own business since freelancing it is a journey you learned so much about yourself about people about the world how how was that for you like did you do more self-development before starting freelancing or was it the freelancing that helped you develop like get to know yourself better and see what you want to Definitely. I love that that kind of concept of Yeah, it’s having opening your own business or starting freelancing is definitely like Yeah. the best way to quickly know yourself and understand your weaknesses and your strengths. And it was definitely very confronting. I think for me it was more like after I’d started freelancing that the self-development was really kicking in because I was having to confront fears. I was having to overcome limiting beliefs quickly in order to be successful. And it was like, okay, you know, it’s not just like, oh, let’s read about it and like take action later. It’s like, no, I need to take action like right now in order for this to be successful and for this to work. Yeah. The second part was exposing yourself to other people who are doing what you want to do. Like, did you already know them and you saw that it was possible or was it something that you actively see out?

Yeah, it was definitely something I had to actively seek out because I didn’t really know anybody around me who were doing what I was doing or even similar to what I was doing and doing it successfully. I remember I had like a few kind of like couple of people I went to university with and like distant contacts but I was like made an active e effort to kind of reach out to them, get their knowledge, their you know understand how they gotto where they they were.

So that was really really important and also making new connections as well like I was just finding people on Instagram like reaching out to them asking if they would hop on a call with me or give me some guidance and that was so valuable and yeah just even other business owners I don’t think it necessarily needed to be freelancers just other people who were running their own business and uhgetting those words of wisdom.

Most Important Thing to Do: Take Action

Was there a common thread that you saw in all of them or some advice that all of them gave you?

Ella: “Yeah, the biggest common thread was just literally taking action every day and doing like yeah doing something which is going to bring your business that step forward and also making sure that the actions you’re taking are actually the money-making activities, right?

They’re not the things that are like, “Oh, this is fun to do that.” Like, “Oh, I’m going to work on my logo now.” Or like, “Oh, I’m just going to update my portfolio again.” Like it’s like, okay, actually, you know, hopping on that call, sending that pitch. Yeah. Doing that email that you haven’t wanted to do, you know, and just doing those things that are are difficult, you know, the ones that really push you out your comfort zone.

It’s not like working on your logo and your portfolio isn’t important. It’s more of course like a good portfolio and a good branding will definitely help with your message and attracting the right people, but it’s usually the things where like do I want to tell old John from company I worked at 5 years ago and I haven’t reached out to that I’m freelancing because he has a great network and he might wonder who I am but should I send this email you know like this kind of faffing about it’s that where you like feel icky maybe or you’re not sure what were the tasks that you felt like those were maybe the most scariest or ickiest, but you did them anyway and they um that helped you the most.

Well, I literally I remember when I first started out, I promised myself that I would at least send 30 pictures a day. That was like the only thing I had to do in a day. And I’m actually so gladI did that because I think that was probably the main thing that made me successful so quickly is like literally just having no emotional attachment to it, messaging everyone you know and then when you run out of people that you know, start just reaching out to those brands that you want to work with and having no shame about it and also makingsure that you’re sending a message which is going to stand out as well. Um, so that was a lot of experimenting with different types of scripts and structures, um, and seeing what worked.And some things didn’t work, some things worked. Like, but you’re only going to know when you do it right. It’s, that’s one thing that I think people maybe focus too much on, yeah, the theory and not the action. And I think obviously these things are important as well, but it’s it’s so important to take action even if it’s imperfect and even if it’s scary and even if it’s cringey. Um yeah, and my my first clients like they weren’t glamorous at all. Like when I started out, I remember it was like a friend of a friend who wanted to start a brand and she had like no money to do it, but I was like, do you know what? I’m just going to do it. Like, you know, this is good exposure. She’s not my dream client. And then, you know, it’s some other random person that isn’t really what you want to be doing, but it’s like and then it starts growing from there. And, you know, it’s it took me only about 3 months to to get to where I wanted to be and start getting those clients quite fast to start working with. Yeah. But that was because I was doing 30 pictures a day.Yeah. Relentlessly.

How to Master Cold Outreach and How to Pitch

For someone who’s a little bit because like pictures is more or less cold outreach like maybe not as cold because you know who you’re targeting. You’re not going to random people like you’re not going to a web developer asking them if you need fashion stuff like you are already filtering who you reach out to like the brands that you mentioned but what do you recommend to someone who is a little bit because I know for meI prefer when clients come to me when I know okay I don’t have to do much sales but if you reach out to someone who doesn’t know anything about you often especially at the beginning of your freelance career maybe you don’t have as big of a network or that many people that you know to reach out to.

What do you recommend to someone who is messaging a complete stranger and tries to sell them the services? The key is to try not to sell um to try and set like to sound as least salesy as possible because I think if you think about the generic message that every brand is getting is, “Hi, my name’s this, this is what I do, here are my services, do you need freelance work?” That’s pretty much like the structure.

So you need to kind of go against that and make sure you’re going to be doing something that stands out from the crowd. So yeah, instead of just asking them, why don’t you give them something? That’s what I always think. Like give them something.

Give them something that you’ve created or something that you’ve seen that’s inspiring or maybe it’s an event that’s coming up or something that you think will uh help them in some way.

Give them something that you’ve created or something that you’ve seen that’s inspiring or maybe it’s an event that’s coming up or something that you think will uh help them in some way. Could be something that you’ve personally created. It could be like, I don’t know, like a a trend prediction for fashion designers or it might be like a, you know, a dock that you’ve put together with some useful tips.

So that’s the best way to approach it because people are much more likely to reply to you and get back to you when they feel like they’re slightly indebted and it gives them kind of a it kind of like breaks the ice as well because when people feel like they don’t they have no pressure and no one, you know, the freelancer isn’t asking anything of them. It’s just like so much easier to open that conversation and they can say like, “Oh yeah, that looks great. Thanks so much. Oh yeah, you know, what is it that you do?” or you know it’s mucheasier to start that conversation.

So yeah, I would definitely say go in with the value and don’t ask for too much upfront because if you ask them for work or ask them for contacts like they’re going to be more resistant to get back to you and they’re just going to be like, “Oh, it’s another freelancer asking us for something.”I mean, there are so many sales techniques in the one that you mentioned. And I can’t I kind of like I understand that all these sales strategies and stuff work. But I I feel like but that’s that’s me personally like other freelancers have no problem with sales at all. They know it’s like something they have to do to survive. You give someone something for free and then they feel like they owe you.

There’s a there’s a psychological term for it, I think. And it’s like when yougo somewhere and you get like a free pen with the logo on it or like I don’t know a free drink in a place and you got more likely to buy a second one or something like that. I forgot what the term is called but there are so many strategies like this and the thing that I dislike about it is yes they work like there is a reason why people use them but it seems so strategic. And I met this guy too long ago and he mentioned something that people always feel like sales is manipulative, but manipulation isn’t necessarily a bad thing. And he gave the example of um like if you want to if you go to a pottery class, if you want to make a plate or if you want to make a bowl, you have to manipulate the clay ina way that it’s going to serve you. And manipulation is just like you tweaking something. It’s not like the clay is still going to be clay, but you shape it in a way.

But I think like with a person I don’t know, maybe it’s just becauseI’m Yeah, it’s it feels like so um I do understand it and I think that’s something that I struggled with a lotwhen I started out cuz I was like, you know, I’m such an honest person. But then I was like, you know what, like what’s the best way to have a sales strategy? It’s by giving them something that’s actually going to be useful tothem and they can take it or leave it.

You know, you kind of just putting it out there. Look, I’ve got this. If you want, if you’re interested, it’s up to you. And it’s really down to them. I definitely don’t like the kind of hard sale. Like, if people aren’t interested, I’m not like, you know, try and manipulate them to get them on a call.Like, just leave it, move on. There’s plenty more fish in the sea, right? And also, I think the cold pitching is definitely important when you’re starting out, but I would say like probably for you and me, like we’re kind of experienced freelancers. We don’t want to be pitching every single day. That’s not something that I think should be in our schedule. Like we should be at the point where people are finding us. And that’s why I also agree with like having a strong social media presence, having a a good website, a strong website which is going to be searcha bleand also yeah creating content which is going to attract the right types of clients and has a high conversion rate.

So I think the two go hand in hand and I would say as your business grows you want to be more relying on those yeah keen clients who are coming to you but I also think the pitching is great because you can target your clients. I don’t know if you found this like sometimes if you just wait for people to come to you it’s kind of like a mixed bag.

Yeah, there are definitely phases where it’s more okay, the clients are coming and it’s all good and phases where often when the economy is going down like supposedly now where you have to be a bit more proactive and find the people that do need that service or that are not in a saving mode and yeah so there are different phases like I think I was quite lucky I got into UX when it was in demand and there were not as many bootcamps and things like that and through that once you have that network once you have client clients that also need things in the future. I barely have to reach out. I every now and then when I’m like, “Ah, this project might end soon.”

I’m just going to have a browse what’s out there. Maybe I just send a quick message on LinkedIn or something. ButI’m not at the stage where I don’t uh where I do cold outreach. But if let’s say I would have a dream client like I would like to make an app for XY Z, I would have to be more proactive because it’s very unlikely that this client is going to reach out to me. But one thing that I wanted to ask you and I think we’re quite similar in that is that yes, you have the freelance um like the fashion industry that you’re targeting with your freelance services, but you also coach other freelancers um specifically for the fashion industry. So you have two different targetaudiences like how do you manage those? Like how do you find your coaching clients versus your um freelance clients? Um yeah, how do you do that?Yeah, good question.

Yeah, it’s it’s definitely now I would say I’m pretty much 100% doing the coaching right now, but up until probably end of last year,I was still doing both and that was a lot. And I’d actually kind of got to the point where I had too many inquiries for the fashion services. Like I was overwhelmed with client inquiries. I couldn’t take on any more clients. And that was I really think that was down to like the work that I put in at the beginning of my business promoting myself. Because the thing is it’s like probably the same with you as well with UX design. It’s like once you get some good clients, they become reoccurring clients. Is that the same for you?

They’re coming back to you every time they need something. And with fashion, it can be quite predictable because it’s like, oh, spring, summer, you know, okay, we’re doing autumn, winter now. So, it’s it kind of rolls quite nicely. So, what I found is I started getting these kind of regular clients which were coming back every single time, which was great. Uh, you know, they they knew me well. They knew my way of working. I knew they were going to pay my prices and it was it was very like consistent work which is amazing.

So I found that like if I had new inquiries I couldn’t really take them on unless they were like a project that I was like okay I really want to do this. This is something really exciting. So yeah I felt like the first year of freelancing I was definitely doing the pitching. I was definitely like on social media onLinkedIn you know messaging every day making sure that I was targeting those people.

Starting Coaching for Fashion Freelancers

And then yeah, as the coaching now has taken off, I feel like I’m kind of back to the beginning of like pitching and putting myself out there and doing the social media side of things. So it would have been easier in a way to just stick it out with the fashion freelance business, doing the designing, but I wanted a new challenge and something different and I I’m really enjoying it, you know, helping people, helping freelancers and it was definitely a lot to struggle to juggle both.

And that’s why I kind of felt like at the end of last year I had to really make a decision. And I was like, “Okay, what am I going to do?” You know, I can’t divide my time between these two businesses because someone’s going to suffer. You know, it’s well, it’s usually me cuz I’m like going to hit burnout. But it was also like my clients, my my design clients wouldn’t get the attention that they deserved, but then also my coaching clients and my coaching business wasn’t going to grow. So, yeah, had to make that hard decision.

So, now 100% coach, but may go back to the designing at some point. So, we’ll see. Was there a specific reason or a point where like I know what it’s like juggling many things like I have the uh freelance business I have the freelance blueprint like the podcast is part of it and I want to have like basically I’m building a platform where you can get courses and stuff but it takes so much time I have a co-living, I have a private life I want to travel and it feels like if you do too many things at once nothing ever progresses and it’s good that you then decide to give your 100% focus to one thing because then you also see it grow.

Did you see that something has changed in the coaching business since you gave it all of your time? Yeah, definitely. I always felt like the coaching business was almost like a bit of a side hustle because at the end of the day like client work always took priority. you know, we had deadlines and, you know, I needed to deliver at certain dates. Whereas like the coaching business is is a little bit different because I’d say like most of it, you know, there is the client management, but it’s much more like a 2-hour call once a week with my client and then, you know, that might I might have one or two calls a day, whereas like the design work was much more demanding. You know, you need to put a lot of time and energy. You know how it is, doing updates, doing amendments, having fittings, doing all that stuff. So yeah, that definitely became much less in terms of like demands with the clients, but yeah, it was definitely a lot more going into the marketing side of it and the growth element of like how is this going to work? How is this going to be, you know, sustainable and successful? So that was definitely like a very really big transition.

So yeah, and it’s also very beneficial that you have these returning clients because you’re also creating a bunch of like professional freelancers in the fashion industry where you can be like, I’m notdoing this anymore, but I know all of these people that I can recommend and they will probably get like contacts foryou and stuff. How do you feel about because like I’m still kind of I kind of on the I I did the opposite like I now focus more on doing UX design for the clients because I had a phase where I just did the coliving and I was like okay I need to get some money back in because the coliving is in the early stages where I have to tell people what is a coliving why do I open a coliving in Sri Lanka and all these kind of things. So it’s like again at the beginning and learning. Whereas the UX is at the stage where I’m like if I need gigs I know how to get them.

I’m very efficient now. So I can get the task done quite quickly.But my kind of issue is that I’m worried about my UX clients googling me and finding my cringy Instagram, you know. Yeah. Like how how was that for you? Because like at the beginning when you search my name, Elisabeth Mayr is a very common name in Austria. H it’s like John Smith in English and you would find like a a football player I think when you search that name.

Now it actually comes up with some of my Instagram stuff which is like yeah it’s like that’s not what I want to pop up when like a UX client finds me. But yeah, how did you manage having two different audiences?

It was definitely hard and I definitely felt the same as you, like a little bit cringe when I was like, “Oh, I don’t want my clients to know.” Um, but then at the same time, I was like, “Isn’t that like desirable for them to see that I’m a freelance coach, you know, teaching people in the industry, they’re going to be like, “Oh, you know, she’s my designer. That’s great.

Like, she’s clearly good at whatshe does.” So, I had to try and like change my mindset, but at the same time, like I remember I had a few of my clients like follow me on Instagram and I was like freaking out. I was like, “Oh my god.”Cuz also, you have to remember that my content is telling people how to deal with like difficult clients, to set boundaries, to charge more, like all of this stuff. And I was like, “Oh my god, they’re going to look at it and think like I don’t know, like that I’m like antique clients or something.” But yeah, like I still get like my past clients like liking my content and being supportive of it. So I think you know people need to accept that you know we are business owners.

We’re freelance like we can have multiple businesses. We’re not restricted to just one thingand we can yeah we can pivot as and when we choose. But that’s also the nice thing about freelancing like you can open a new business. you can go on a new venture and what you mentioned with like one of your past clients finding your coaching stuff.

I like that was one of my biggest fear and so far from what I know it was only one client that found my coaching stuff and she actually reached out to me on Instagram and I was like oh no this is like I I I saw that she was messaging me and I was like oh my god I don’t want to open this. This is going to be so awkward. But then she just asked for advice because she wanted to work on her own online presence. And I’m like,you coming to me for online presence advice? Like I have no idea what I’m doing. Um, but it wasn’t like in the endthe thing that I was fearing wasn’t as bad in the end.

So often like we havethese stupid ideas in our head and it’s what you say, it can actually be a benefit for them that I’m helping other freelancers Yeah. manage their businesses. Yeah. It’s actually a plus, not necessarily a negative thing.Yeah, definitely. Um but but now I completely can relate afeeling of like no, what are they going to say? The fear of judgment, isn’t it? Is like putting yourself out there in a kind of different context and also like the imposter syndrome as well. I definitely had that when I started as a coach.

I don’t know if you did as well. Oh, 100%. But I also it’s like it’s not just with the coaching, it’s also withUX. anything that you do and especially in the creative industry people are saying are you a creative if you don’t have some sort of imposter syndrome and it’s this it’s often like our own thoughts because other people would think oh this design is great and sometimes I’m like oh who am I to start a podcast like why why do I think people would want to listen to it why would you know all these kind of things and it’s like no people are listening uh people do care and it’s this weird self-perception And I think a lot is confidence. And I assume you’re also similar to me where you’re probably more likely going to attract a female audience.

Finding the Right Coach

I mean, fashion in general is probably a bit more female. Um, but then with the coaching, you attract who you are though, right?

Yeah. And I I did coaching like I had coaching myself and I highly recommend it, but of course I also had coaching where it was like actually that didn’t work for me. And the common thread is the coaches that really where it kind of didn’t work out were male. And I think and it’s not that they did a bad job, but looking back at it, I think it was just a very different type of energy. It was all about sales. It was all about, oh, just get over yourself. And um and it’s like I don’t think they understood that I don’t have the confidence to just tell someone.

There was this uh coach of mine and he gave me the script of DM-ing people and not giving like not open-ended questions but like giving them two options like do you follow me for nomad stuff or do you follow me for freelance content and then they would just answer one word freelance content or whatever and then it was like this doesn’t sound how guys text yeah yeah yeah exactly and it was like it doesn’t sound like me it doesn’t feel like me it feels weird but I was also like I know what coaching is like like you should just follow their structure because obviously what you’re doing and see if it works.

But it just felt so wrong. And I also said that in the coaching it’s just it’s weird to DM someone with the purpose like they’re already following me so like it’s fine like eventually they will maybe buy a course or ask for one-on-one if they feel like it. But he was like no you have to be proactive and yes you have to be proactive as a freelancer but it was just not my type of selling. And yeah, and then I had female coaches and I think they just understand more about imposter syndrome and and I’m not saying men don’t have it and I’m not saying men are bad coaches, not at all. It’s just that was the common thread that it was like a bit ofa different energy behind it. Definitely.

And I think also like those sales methods might work better on men. I think we spoke about this before, like my partner, he’s a dating coach for men. And I mean, it was great having him when I started out freelancing because he had so much experience in these areas that I didn’t have much experience, you know, having sales calls and, you know, having to, you know, deal with these objections and things like that. But like sometimes like he would tell me to do things and say things and I would just be like, I can’t say that.

like that doesn’t even like I can’t even imagine myself saying those things but when he says it and I hear him on a sales call it sounds totally normal and like and it works as well because I think sometimes that kind of like tough love like straight to the point like no type of sales maybe does work better for men who do need help with their dating lives but maybe it’s not going to work on a freelance designer who just wants to overcome her imposter syndrome or you know whatever it is that they need to overcome. So, you just got to go with what feels right to you.

And this is something I always tell my clients as well. It’s like in my coaching, I give them scripts. I give them like uh templates, but I always say to them, I’m like, if this doesn’t feel like you, you need to adapt it. I would recommend that you follow the structure of like the call or like the message, but make it sound like yourself and if you don’t feel comfortable, like that’s absolutely fine.

Like do it in your way. So, so that’s what I always try and recommend cuz I know how it feels like to write a message and just be like this doesn’t even feel like me. And I think people can feel that. They can feel like these are not really your words. And then it’s if the message and the energy and like the result and stuff, they they don’t match. You’re not going to end up with the sale because any confusion isgoing to end up in not a sale. Like they need to be convinced that you’re the right person. You’re gonna solve my problem. And that’s all you really needto do in the end. like what’s the hesitation?

And it’s also it’s not just about oh I really want to sell to that person but it’s also like I only want to take on coaching clients that are also good for me. So before I take on anyoneI have a chemistry call because also I’m going to invest my time with that person. I’m you know like it’s it’s my knowledge that I share and also I want to see is that a person that takes action or is that a person that wants everything to be done for them.

Is that a person that I enjoy being on a phone call with or is it going to be me dreading talking to them which luckily never happened? And I think but yeah, it’s good that you’ve considered these elements because also and also I found that sorry to interrupt you but I was just thinking that I found something that I had to really accept especially with the coaching is that you are not going to bethe right coach for everyone.

Exactly. And that’s okay. Your approach isn’t going to suit everybody. And I think that’s somethingI really had to accept. And you know, you kind of when something does happen or something doesn’t work for someone, you’re like, “Oh my god.” Or maybe they resist your approach. Um that can feel really like you kind of question your whole Yeah. your whole likeYeah. your whole life, I guess, and like your whole concept of uh coaching.

So yeah, accepting that not everybody is going to be the right fit for you, and that’s absolutely fine. like my approach isn’t going to suit everybody. Um, and yeah, and I think you’re so right in like you attract who you are, right? And it’s like I do feel like I attract females who have the same energy to me and maybe the same approach as well. So, I’ve been really lucky with that. And it’s like, like I said, like the cultures that I had, they’re not necessarily bad cultures. It just didn’t work for me. But also, have you heard about um have you heard of human design? Yes.

Human Design for Business

I’ve got a book on my shelf. So for me it’s a bit of a mix because supposedly it’s based on science, but then it’s also based on your birthday and time, which is like andI’m I’m not like, oh my god, astrology is or like star signs is I used to belike on the side of this is utter like don’t tell me whatever because of my star sign. But the older I get and the more stuff I experience and it happened like three four times.

I would go somewhere I don’t know a single person and I just chitchat with a stranger and then they’re like after two seconds like “You’re Sagittarius aren’t you?” I’m like oh really oh this is creepy you know like yes it’s a 1 in 12 chance but still it happened four or five times and yeah so I was like I’m a bit open to it. I’m not saying it’s facts.

I’m also not saying it’s absolutely not true because it is some sort of knowledge or belief that has been in the world since I don’t know humans existed. And if you think of we’re all big bang, we’re all stardust, it would make sense that the stars influence us. So I just out of fun looked into the human design thing. And I’m a projector. Are you? Yeah, I’m a projector. Oh, you’re a projector.

Okay, I’m a reflector. Ooh. which is the rarest one. Interesting.

Yeah. So, it’s and it really makes sense to me because it’s like a reflector reflects their environments and reflects the people around them. So, if I’m with someone who’s a certain way, like I will adapt myself to fit to them and their energy or like their needs. And yeah, I think that’s probably helps me with the coaching element because I can really adapt to people and make them feel heard, make them feel listened. But that doesn’t necessarily mean that I always feel heard and listened. It just means that sometimes I can attract the wrong energies because it people.

Yeah. I meant his this might this sounds a bit weird thing, but like people always like feel great after being with me because it’s like I’ve given them everything that they need and they go away feeling really full and I go away feeling really like depleted and like drained. So, I have to be really careful about that as well. So, that’s something I learned.

Like I I went to this one workshop because a friend of mine, she was super curious about it and it was for free andI was like, you know what, let’s just go learn something new. You know, it can’t it can’t hurt. and um she was basically explaining the different human design types and the reflector I think is just 1% so it’s really really rare and the way um it’s defined if you’re like which type you are is on your birth date and time and there’s basically an imprint um 3 months before you’re born and on the date that you have born and there are like it’s based on the chakras and if these things are filled or not filled and it’s crazy how much I remember from this one session Um but basically a reflector has nothing filled which is why you just you absorb it and reflect it back. Um whereas like like for example like let’s say the top chakra I don’t know the stuff that’s in your brain if that is filled it means you get inspiration by yourself, you come up with your own ideas.

Whereas if it’s empty, if you need an idea, you would have to get inspiration. You would have to listen to music, listen to podcast, go to a museum. Um so you can make ideas, but it’s not really your own. Like, so this is basically the theory behind it. Um and I don’t have my inner self-defined, so that’s empty. And that kind of made sense for me because I always admired the people that would go to a restaurant, open a menu, and in one second, one glance, they know I want this. And I’m so indecisive.

I’m like, yeah, like I would be happy with this, this, this, that, but like and then I’m like, I don’t know which one I want and ah I could have this, but then you see this other meal and like ah what is this? And it’s like and I’m basically getting influenced from the people around me. Yeah. So yeah, it’s I guess and I had a conversation very interesting. Yeah. And I had a conversation with someone who’s really really into human design and she told me she doesn’t know what it would be like to be a reflector because it must be super exhausting that you basically take on the personality of who’s around you because you have to be so selective with who you let into your life.

So it’s interesting. I had to go Yeah. It’s really interesting that I you’ve really explained it so well and it’s actually like yeah it’s kind of scary when I’m like oh my god I’m a reflector and I’m so influenced by everything and I think something that I really struggle with is first of all like knowing myself and knowing that the reasons why I make decisions if that makes sense.

So I take a really long time sometimes to make a decision because I’m like am I being influenced by someone else or is this actually what I want like and it takes me a long time to come to that realisation of like the next steps oryeah like to so I think I have a friend who’s really into human design as well and she said apparently reflectors need 30 days to make a decision and they should take 30 days because apparently like in the 30-day cycle you will know by the end of that like whether it’s a decision you really want to do or if it’s something else influencing you. Oh god. And I thought I I’m like, so by the time you’re in the restaurant, like are you going to wait there a month like to decide what you want to eat? 30 days later. Yeah, exactly.

Setting Boundaries

But something else that I really struggled with and this kind of links back to the freelancing is that and it also linked back to every area of my life and something that I realised I hadn’t really conquered until I started my own business was setting boundaries with people like I really struggled to set boundaries because I would always bethinking I would never think like how am I how do I feel I would always be like how’s the other person feeling or like if I do this am I going to make them feel disappointed or they going to be sad or what are they going to think of me and like had to really change that way of thinking and being like okay is this actually good for me and is this actually something that I accept.

So that was also kind of going back to the self-development side of freelancing. Like setting boundaries was like the scariest thing. I was like, “Oh my god, I’ve never done this before.” And also it meant that I had to really rethink people in my life as well. Like it made me realise that I was like there’s a lot of people in my life who aren’t, you know, giving as much as I’m giving. So that’s been a really big transition. And now I feel like I have to I am very selective with you know my friends and who I surround myself with which has been a really positive change. And then also in business as well you know I have really strict boundaries now. And I think that also helps me to yeah tobuild a business which is going to be scalable and is going to be successful as well. I think boundaries are like so so important.

How are you with boundaries? O um it took me a long time to really stick to them, but now I’m quite confident with sticking to them because I know like like for example not too long ago I got this message on LinkedIn for like a project and we had like a super long call about it. Also the CEO was on it and it was like this is the first call like you know that’s usually like just a very quick okay does this person speak English? does this person know what they’re, you know, but it was super long. And then the second task, and usually in freelancing, you don’t have that many rounds, but the second task would be to do a design task.

And it’s like, I’m sorry, I’m past that stage. I’m not saying don’t ever do them. If you can use them in your portfolio or something, you know, like there can be or if you’re very early on in your career, maybe there’s not really a way to get around it, but like I’m at a stage where I don’t feel like I should do them anymore. Yeah. And I told the client like, I’m not doing any unpaid design tasks anymore. So if you want me to do it, I can, but you would have to pay me for it.

And then the client was just like, oh, we don’t know how this will work because other people have done a design task. And it’s like if other people do it, then go with them. But if you after a 1-hour conversation still need me to do a design task to understand if I’m working, like if it’s if I’m the right fit for you. But anyway, so the reason why I brought up this whole human design thing was supposedly the strategy for projectors is to wait for the invitation.

So if you put yourself out there and try to sell yourself to someone, it’s not right. And it never felt right to me. For me, it’s like, okay, either they want me to coach them or not. And if if they want to, like, okay, let’s see. Are you okay with me working in this time zone, which means I’m not going to hop on a call with you at 7:00 p.m. European time because I’m currently in Asia, for example. would this work for you or and so it’s more like how are we going to work together not if not if and it’s this it’s bit weird because it feels like such a passive approach to wait for someone to invite you to work for with them but then but then aren’t those the best types of clients yes exactly exactly you don’t have to sell anymore so much easier right and I feel like what I say to my freelance clients is that if you don’t feel comfortable with the pitching. You just need to make sure that you’re active elsewhere.

If that’s something that really struggles, obviously I’ll be like, you know, you really should be doing thumb pitching, but especially as they’re starting out, but I’m like, if you really don’t want to do that, just make sure you’re active on social media, make sure you’re active on LinkedIn, and make sure that you’re easy to find, like have a website, you know, have really easy to navigate, like how to work with you, uh how to book a call with you, like make sure those systems are really in place so that people first of all know that you’re available, know that you’re taking on clients, and that they can reach out to you and they can contact you.

So, I think if you’re doing that and it’s working, then that’s fine. No need tocall pitch. And I always say this to my clients cuz they really do resist with the pitching. I’m like, “This isn’t forever. This is like just now because we want to get you some income. Like, we just want to get you some clients. You won’t be doing this forever.” And the thing is, I find like there are so many ways to find clients.

Ways to Find Clients based on Your Stage

And I like to compare it with an actual shop. Let’s say you’re a coffee shop in some city, you know, maybe some people walk past and they see the shop exists and they will get their coffee there done. But maybe some people don’t know about you.

Maybe they will find you on Google Maps. And at the very very beginning when you just opened, you will not have a Google Maps account because like maybe you won’t rank high because you have no reviews, things like that. That’s thephase where you have to cold pitch. And cold pitching is like standing somewhere near your shop with flyers.

And if anyone ever had this job of like handing out flyers, you know how how disgusting it feels like. People will ignore you. People see you from the distance and go to the other side of the road. People Yeah. One in 10 will take one. Yes. Exactly. Some people might take it.Some people have done this job and they’re like, I’m just going to take that flyer. And then it will work for some of them. But it’s like the most like the least rewarding type of scene. Yeah. Least enjoyable. And I think that’s the thing. It’s not rewarding.

And I have it so much. Like I had it on a coaching call the other day. Like one of the girls I was the women I was working with, she um she’s desperate to get clients. So I was like, “Right, you need to pitch this week. All you’regoing to do is pitch.” And then she says, “I pitched all week and I got no results.” I was like, “Well, okay. Let’s review it then. Let’s see how many did how many people did you pitch?” I pitched five people. Okay. So, that’s what you did this week. Great. So, yeah, you need to be doing like at least five people a day because it is numbers.

It is a numbers game, unfortunately. And you just got to get yourself out there because it’s the whole flyer thing. Like, not everybody’s going to take it. I think it’s so easy to get disappointed like, oh, the pitch isn’t working. Like, my message isn’t captivating. No one wants to work with me. You know, there’s no jobs out there. There’s all these like limiting beliefs. But sometimes it is literally just like getting the numbers. And have I don’t know, have you ever had this when someone’s just been so happy to get your pitch? Yeah. I also experienced it from the other side that made me change my mind about cold pitching because I mean I I had I didn’t really have like from the top of my mind where I messaged a UX client or a coaching client, but I had it with Marchella.

She was actually on one of the previous episodes and she just messaged me on Instagram and basically what she does is tax advisory for digital nomads and I’ve been thinking for a while like I used to live in the UK. I’m from Austria. I’m tax resident in the UK. I have my limited company there but I’m not there. I’m traveling. I don’t have any benefits of paying my taxes. I’m not using the NHS but they take quite a big batch of my income for you know and I’m not saying don’t pay taxes.

It’s a privilege and it’s a good sign that you pay taxes and it’s like they should tax people that make money so that other people have opportunities that are not as privileged or not uh have the same background you know it’s not like oh we should avoid tax but if I pay tax I wanted to go somewhere where it’s benefiting people not not just you know not like that the UK doesn’t need taxes but like also I want it to go back to me and I know the money that I pay into tax in the UK is very likely going back to me. Yeah. So she reached out and was like, “This is exactly what I need. I didn’t even know someone existed who would do that exactly for for my audience, you know, and I was like, ah, so if you just hit the right person, it’s amazing and it felt like a relief.”

Exactly. Um, did you have that?Yeah. So that’s what kind of made me see that like it is it does work and I got some messages you know especially in the earlier days of pitching and starting my freelance business when people would just be like oh my god you are the person that I need like I’ve been looking for a swimwear designer and you know we love your portfolio and d and it’s just easy and yeah other people just yeah they’re just like you just messaged at the right time.

I think it’s a need and it’s also a timing thing and that’s why I always say like you know follow-ups are good as well because you know yes six month six months ago they might have not been interested but what about now you know they might need you now and I’ve had people come back to me after a year of my pitch like a yea rlater they’re like we saved your email we knew that we were going to need you um yeah we want to work together now nice so it does work and you may not see those instant results that’s the thing it’s very as you said it’s a very unrewarding task ask because it’s not instant.

Someone’s not going to just like work with you tomorrow. Well, theymight do, but you know, it’s pretty slim that that’s going to happen. It’s like Yeah. It’s the long game.Exactly. And it’s also what you said at the beginning. You don’t have to do this forever. You don’t have to pitch forever.

You don’t have to be handing out flyers forever. Once you have your first customers, they will write a Google review for you. So, you’re going to rank higher. So, other people in the area that will look for a coffee shop nearby are more likely to find you.There will also be friends. Exactly.

And that’s when it’s like when a friend tells you, “Oh, you have to try this coffee shop.” Like 100% you’re going to go because they know you. And that’s when you you can start the best review. Exactly. Like and then you don’t need to sell them anymore. You don’t have to make sure your shop front is attracting them and stuff. It’s like no, they’re going to come to you because someone told them about you.

And I think like you’re probably at the stage already, I’m at the stage already where it’s like I don’t need to, you know, put myself out there. Maybe there are phases where like again with the economy, people don’t have budgets to do things like maybe then you I mean you probably don’t have to go back to handing out flyers, but maybe you have to review your shop front like you know ask people from the past could you write a review on Google,but it’s just a beginning phase where you have to do this job. Yeah. Yeah. And it’s always like knowing that you have that to fall back on as well. Like having a system in place that works and having a message that works or an approach that works.

I always think like warm pitching is so much easier than cold pitching. So before you do if you have warm leads, like obviously use them first. Those are like past clients, maybe like referrals, maybe like people who have had discovery calls with you and not moved forward. You know, those types of people, but yeah, at least you have something to fall back on in those kind of slower months. But also on the topic of what we talked before imposter and stuff and it’s also often pricing that’s a bit of a resistance.

How to Price Yourself as a Freelancer

What do you recommend someone especially when they’re starting freelancing? Like I remember I felt so weird charging that money even though that was a rate that the client put on there. Like in the UK you have to say how much you’re going to earn. In other countries like in Austria it’s just like a competitive rate. It’s like no tell me like is it even worth my time sending my CV to you?

You know but it felt so weird charging as much as I would earn in a week for a day and um and that was part of imposter like I was happy to do it but it also felt like oh my god they know right what do you tell your coaching clients when it comes to setting the rates. Yeah. So, rates is such a big topic and I think finding clients and working out your rates are probably the two most commonly asked questions that I get.

It’s like, you know, they they’re the biggest struggles to overcome when you’re establishing your own business because obviously you need clients and you need to get paid and how much should should you be paid and and it’s a really really hard one because it’s so personalised to the person and obviously I will always encourage my clients to be charging more and my coaching clients to be charging more and it has to also be aligned with their goals and where they would like to be and where they live, you know, and what their expenses are and and how much they want to be earning, but also how many clients can they take on a month as well.

So, it’s almost like doing the equation of like working outhow much you need to live the basics, but then also thinking about your financial goal because you know you probably want to be earning comfortable amounts so you can do the things that you want to do so you can travel or youcan go on that holiday or save for that house or whatever it is. So like let’s make it possible. Like I truly believe about that you should really be designing your business around your goals and not the other way around.

100%. So if you want to be earning 20K a month, like why not? Maybe you need two10k clients. Like it’s possible. It’s definitely possible. But maybe you haveYeah. Maybe you have smaller expenses and maybe you’re not doing it full-time or maybe you can only take one client ona month. like it’s really dependent on like their situation. So, when I do my rates with my with my coaching clients, it is very very personalised.

So, I’ll get them to work out their their budget, like how much they need to live, and then I’ll I’ll ask them how much how many clients can they take on a month, and then that will give you like theapproximate amount that you should be charging per month. I usually like to do it per month, and then you can work it out cuz you’re probably not going to be able to take on five new clients every single month. That’s unrealistic. So, if you’re taking if your target is five 5,000 a month and you you want and you have to take on five clients at 1,000 like you’re going to be burnt out.

So, it’s better to take on one client at 5,000 and have that as your goal. And then it’s about and then it goes back to the pitching and putting yourself out there and making sure that you’re going to be attracting the right types of clients. And I think I don’t know if we’ve actually talked about this topic,but the number one place where people go to look at rates and competition isplaces like Upwork and Fiverr, which I think totally destroy that kind of perception for freelancers and they think that they should be matching those rates and they’re like, “Oh, but you know, I saw on Fiverr that people are doing designs for like $50, so I have to be charging that.”

I don’t know if you’ve had that as well thought process. Yeah, it’s it’s definitely better to do it backwards like how much do you actually want to earn and it’s not going to mean that you will 100% earn this especially at the beginning and the longer you are in the industry the more you understand what you’re going to charge them like there are different ways you can charge you can charge on a day rate I guess it’s a bit less common in fashion but in UX like most of my projects are on a day rate you can charge on a project rate uh or on a retainer rate and retainer have their advantages because in a way it’s like a subscription you know no matter what you do you will always get paid like it’s like Netflix no matter how much or how little you watch you pay it but that could also mean that some months you have to do a lot of work and some months you don’t and it’s a bit difficult to plan with some clients I kind of like the project based one because just because like the more experience you have the more efficient you will get and you kind of punish yourself for becoming more efficient in it if you keep which is so bad.

Yeah, I hear people saying, you know, like, “Oh, but that CAD design or that design will only take me half an hour to do, so I’ll charge the equivalent of like a half an hour.” And I’m like, “No, you’re only taking half an hour to do that because of your years of experience, because of, you know, all the work that you’ve put in.” And don’t think about the time. Think about the value of that design. Like that could go that design can make them millions

.And you’re going to charge 50 bucks. Like, no. So, no, I totally agree with you with the value-based pricing and I think that also opens up so much freedom as well because you’re not thinking like, oh, I have to work 8 hours to today to be able to, you know, earn x amount. Um, I can work 2 hours and then same as long as I get the job done. Exactly. Yeah. Like if you have a cleaner for your house and one person charges, I don’t know, 10 quid an hour and they take the whole day and maybe another cleaner has some equipment or something where everything’s like in the end of the day the house is clean.

If some I’d rather have the person who is faster because it means I can go back to the room without being disturbed, you know, and the end result is the same. Yeah. And that’s the thing with clients as well. They just want high quality work, quick delivery, and like a friendly service, I guess, is important as well. But it’s just the results that they want. They don’t care about how long it takes you. Exactly. And the faster you are, the better, actually. Unless if it’s too fast, then maybe they get a bit suspicious.

Oh, yeah. That’s um But how do you feel with charging your coaching clients clients versus your fashion clients? because I don’t mind at all saying myrate when I talk to a company and I offer my freelance services because it’s a company like the person I’m talking toare unlikely to pay it from their own pocket. It’s their company’s money paying for it. And I think the reasonwhy I’m a little bit icky selling my coaching services is because I know that’s a person paying their from theirprivate money like that’s their saved money. It’s not a company. How youI want to make sure that they get the value. Yeah. And I know I will provide value but at the same time Iknow I’m asking them up front to send the money before I’ve given the value.Yeah. How do you feel about it? I think that was definitely something that I struggled with when I started outbecause, you know, I did a lot of research of the, you know, the competition, what the rates are, and Ithink my rates compared to a lot of coaches are very, very reasonable. And also, I wanted to make sure that myrates were going to be freelance friendly, I guess, because, you know, freelancers and especially freelancerswho need help aren’t going to be earning a lot of money usually. You know, they usually need help with these things.

So,I try my best to make it affordable for them. And I feel like now as I’ve kind of grown in confidence, I can see like I really believe in the value. And I think that helps because I’ve had so much success with my clients. And the I know that the growth that they can see in the time that we’ve worked together is going to be like a big transformation.

And I feel like because the thing is it was like before it was like I knew it worked for me, but I didn’t know if it worked for other people. And you always have these limiting beliefs like was I just lucky like did it just did I just like land on my feet or maybe it was just like worked for me but it won’t work for someone else. But when I started gettingmore and more coaching clients and seeing that the strategies and the methods were working for them and they were seeing big results and a big difference that has now kind of reassured me that I know that my coaching is value for the money and yeah it’s it’s like a fair exchange. It feels it feels like a fair exchange. And also now like I’ve kind of tried to open it up. So if you don’t have Yeah. a higher price point that you can invest in yourself, there are like lower price options. So now like I’ve built a community which is has courses and resources and group coaching calls which is much more affordable. So I feel like now I kind of have a range. So when someone comes to me asking for help, I can kind of gauge their budget and tailor to what they what they want. And also that’s gonna not you know uh break the bank break the bank. Yeah. So there are three questions that I ask

Final Freelance Blueprint Questions

all of my guests and one of them is would you ever go back to a permanent job?No. Never. I couldn’t. I don’t think I could now.Like I I someone suggested it to me the other day like I remember I think it was my mom actually. I was like a bitstressed about something and she said well you can always go and get you know you can always go and get a 9 to5. And I was like, “No way.”

Like, “I would never ever.” It’s not even an option to me. Do you feel the same? No. Like I It would have to be the perfect job that No, even if it’s the perfect job, someone else decides for you. Like you would have to go and ask,”Can I take these days off? You would have to go and ask, is it okay if XY Z?”

No. Like it wouldn’t be an option. No. Same. It’s funny. You just can’t go back. No. It’s like once you’ve seen that there’s this other world out there, you’re like, why why did I think it was a smart idea to get a job? Yeah. I mean, learn on the job. Yes. But then once you have the skill set, do your own thing. No. Exactly. And I also like feel like there’s not enough education for like people at university about other options.

Like I really wish that like we had a you know a guest speaker coming in and talking about freelance opportunities in the fashion industry cuz I really think that would have changed the trajectory of like where I would have gone cuz I would have thought like oh I can do it and travel and I can be free but I just never thought that was the option. Like I just didn’t.

Like they don’t teach you how to become your own like to be entrepreneurial. They just teach you this is how you write a CV. Like this is how you become an employee. this is howyou’re going to support someone else with their dreams instead of what you actually we have like a whole module on like interviewing for jobs like in my university that was just like oh you know prepare your portfolio go for a job interview get your CV ready like off you go yeah which is probably not that um bad to know because in a way that’s what pitching is if you find freelance clients yeah if you could go back in time to that girl that had these courses with how to do interviews who probably just had this epiphany of, oh, the fashion world is not as glamorous. It is Devil Wears Prada. What do you think you today would tell your younger self back then? God, that’s a good question.

I would just say that like you don’t have to put up with it. Like there are other options. And I think I was really blind to all the other opportunities that were out there. And I just Yeah, I just put up with so much Like I just felt like I put up I just kept fighting through it and thinking it was going to get better. And the thing is, especially when you work for these big companies, like they don’t, you’re just a cog in their big machine. And you know, when you run your own business, you can really control Yeah. your future, your goals, how much you’re going to earn, how much time you’re going to spend, take off. You know, it’s these things are so important.

I think, you know, some people full-time work, it works for them and they need that, you know, they need that consistency and they need that like controlled environment. And I think some people are really happy in those in those types of positions, but yeah, for me definitely wasn’t a good fit. So yeah, I think I would just tell myself like just takethe leap and it will work out.

Nice. And if you think of your future self 5 years from now, maybe she’s taken on some more design projects, maybe she’s just doing coaching, maybe there’s a different venture, maybe you create your own fashion brand. Uh if you don’t have that already, maybe um who knows, maybe you have a whole company of creating this army of confident freelance fashion designers. What do you think your future self would come to you today to tell you? Oh, there really good questions. I think she would say to me to not to be scared to keep trying different things because I feel like that’s basically how you become successful is by just trying and failing and trying and failing until something works and something clicks.

And I feel like I’m at that point of this coaching business where I’m like, I’m going to make it work. So, I was I think she was just telling me to keep going and keep keep trying, keep putting yourself out there because, you know, being self-employed, it does have its downsides. You know, you have those days when you’re like, “What am I doing with my life? Like, is this really going to work? When when am I next going to get paid?” Like, you have all these, you know, limiting beliefs and negative thoughts.

But you you just have to really trust and go with the process and know that it will work out in the end if you put the time, effort, and yeah, take those big jumps, which can feel really scary. Yeah. Yeah. But it’s always it’s it’s so much more rewarding than a permanent job. It really is. It’s It’s definitely worth it. All those days when you have those um Yeah. those negative painting on fly moments.Exactly. Yeah. It’s all worth it in the long run. I wouldn’t I wouldn’t change it for the world. Even though it can be stressful at times. Yeah. Thank you so much for this conversation. I really enjoyed this.

How to Connect with Ella

For the listeners who want to learn more about you, where can they find you? Yeah, you can find me on Instagram. It’s probably the best way. Or I’m also on LinkedIn. LinkedIn it’s Ella Chisholm and on Instagram it’s @thefashionfreelancecoach and that’s probably the best ways to find me on social media.

Lisi: “I’ll put all the links in the description anyway.”

Ella: “That’s fine. Yeah. Great. It’s been so nice talking to you. Thank you so much for having me, Elisabeth.”

Lisi: “Thanks for thanks for being here, Ella. This was super nice. Thank you. I know. It’s such a great conversation.”

Outro

I really enjoyed this episode with Ella and I hope you did, too. If you’re interested in having her as a coach, I mean, this episode should have convinced you. You will find all the links that you need in the description of this podcast. If you like this episode, please leave a review and hit the follow button. Share this episode with anyone who you think can benefit from listening. That’s all from me and I hope to have you join again next week. Bye.